Flagfox 5: can I have the old flags back?

Any feedback, suggestion, bug reports, problems....
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DaveG
Flagfox Developer
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Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:06 pm
Location: Philadelphia, USA

Re: Flagfox 5: can I have the old flags back?

Post by DaveG » Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:17 am

If you want smaller icons, tweak the pref.

I'm begining to wonder if there are just some people using low resolution screens that have this icon somehow taking up a larger portion of their screen. It's less than 16 pixels high at its maximum. That's the same height as all the other icons. Its width is never more than 26 px. Again, this is still very tiny.

The people on dark themes didn't like things due to a difference of opinion on the color of the border. I changed that in Flagfox 5.0.1 for them.
gidstelios wrote:Being a software engineer myself I would immediately return a feature that I would have removed back to my software if the people using it asked for it
Sorry, but that's not how software development works anywhere. Every single change has costs and benefits and will get praise and criticism from users. The criticism for this one is loud, but very focused. Looking at this thread it looks like there is a giant outcry for the old icons, but in comparison to the total user base as well as the positive feedback I've had, very few people have complained.

It's very simple, here are my options:
1) Revert a major version that went through months of development and testing, now deployed to 800000+ computers thus far. (obviously not happening)
2) Revert the entire new style of Flagfox and abandon all improvements (obviously not happening)
3) Add back one old set as an option (would annoy whichever group wants the other; see also #4)
4) Add back both old sets as an option, which won't happen for the following reasons:
a) It would take a month and a half or so to localize the option text for the options dialog (not an exaggeration; welcome to volunteer translation)
b) It would bloat up the installer and monthly updates with many more icon files (which are larger in file size)
c) NEITHER OF THE OLD SETS ARE MAINTAINED. (the site for the old primary set doesn't even load anymore) Continuing to use them would mean that I would personally have to continue monkey patching them to make updates as needed. This is a time sink which I simply can't continue doing. I'm not going back to including flags with known holes and obsolete flags. (there are lots in the old sets that just used colonial powers' flags; the new set actually has the real ones) Again, my hack-ins don't match and the size needed to go with it usually ends up looking quite bad. I also can't make more minor updates, as a competent looking out-of-date icon is better than a correct 12px high blob. (again, old icons were tiny) Every hour wasted on screwing with the old set is an hour I can't do something more useful, and another hour of frustration that doesn't actually produce a decent update. Simply put, I don't want to include icons that are known to be bad. There have been plenty of complaints beyond this over the years. This new set is the only want to fix those issues for everyone, and the only way to keep the flags in Flagfox actually up-to-date.
5) Add in a new flag icon set as an option using some other set of icons that is actually up-to-date and maintained
6) Create a method to load an arbitrary flag icon set as an option (via some about:config pref)

#5 still has disadvantages, as I would still have to keep updating the new alternate set and it would still bloat up the installer. This is still something I wish to avoid. To most of us, another couple hundred kilobytes an update is nothing, but that's just not true for everyone. I've already had to increase the installer filesize by 100k or so due to the inefficient new packaging required to go extractionless and restartless. Another 200k a month on top of the new 100k is not trivial to some people. It should be a non-issue, but it still isn't. Adding one thing helps one group, but hurts another. I also plan to release a version of Flagfox for Mobile Firefox where bandwidth and disk space constraints prohibit just dumping in a few hundred new files. I would like to have to avoid forking installers for desktop and mobile, as it makes things a maintenance pain on my end as well as increasing release complexity quite a bit.

#6 has issues. This wouldn't be a great option I could really put in the options dialog, as the icons need to be named properly to be found, so I'd have to package sets myself and put them up for people to download and install. It's a theoretically possible route, however.

Again, to people who haven't decided what I will say before ranting and not bothering to listen: #5 & #6 are legitimate possibilities. You will not, however, get something immediately upon a wave of my magic wand.

However, I have to tell you that I have just had to de-prioritize dealing with this spiteful group of people to maintain my sanity. There are a couple of polite people criticizing, and I thank you for that, but also two or three people who went off the deep end. Someone posted a mother fucking death threat in a review on AMO. (not even with any context) There were two people spamming links to hacks of 5.0.0 with the old icons in it so often that Mozilla moderators had to get directly involved to shout them down and contact them directly to get them to stop abusing the system. (posting any file sharing links like that is a direct violation of their policy, obviously) There are crazy people who think Mozilla actually lets addon developers directly delete reviews.

I'm sure someone will tell me I shouldn't reply here anymore. (they might be right) However, if someone asks legitimate questions in a non-asshole manner, I tend to want to reply. This thread, however, is getting to the point where nobody who will reply from here on out will have read anything I have said. I will not repeat the above again and am now less tolerant of BS.


PS
The above should be more concise, but it isn't;
“I didn't have time to write a short letter, so I wrote a long one instead.” ― Mark Twain
Last edited by DaveG on Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: added link to 5.0.1

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byteleg
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2014 10:52 pm

Re: Flagfox 5: can I have the old flags back?

Post by byteleg » Sat Mar 22, 2014 11:00 pm

Just to say I am long-time user of flagfox and I think it’s a great addon :D but I don’t like the new icons very much either :( .

I have converted the go squared 64px icons linked on page 3 to 18x12 px.
If anyone may find them useful here they are (both flat and shiny):
Download (flag PNGs only): https://mega.co.nz/#!1ocDgKiR!t7VJQu1QZ ... V1E12S-b4U

Info:
https://www.gosquared.com/resources/flag-icons/
Almost all were converted automatically in about a 30 seconds using IrfanView and the bulk option (crop and resize).
Shiny: CH, VA, NP and Flat: NP had to be done manually but 4 out of 520 (260 per set) is not bad.
All files were then renamed to lowercase using Ant Renamer.

old gobbo
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2014 3:08 pm

Re: Flagfox 5: can I have the old flags back?

Post by old gobbo » Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:51 pm

Just to say that there is a reasonable argument of sorts, if you really are short of space - but to shout rudely for the old flags is mere petulance, and provokes the ire - not only of the developer (whom God preserve), but also of those (the majority of) users who admire and value his work.

It does not matter whether they look more or less pretty: they are a tool taking up an insignificant portion of the page. I never even look at the flag most of the time, only when I am suspicious of a site: and then it doesn't make any difference to me whether it looks like Rubens, Goya or Matisse, as long as I can quickly identify it.

Be grateful that there is such a tool, send the developer a little money, and ask nicely - and maybe he will be able to improve matters in future..

gidstelios
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:41 am

Re: Flagfox 5: can I have the old flags back?

Post by gidstelios » Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:55 pm

Sorry, but that's not how software development works anywhere. Every single change has costs and benefits and will get praise and criticism from users. The criticism for this one is loud, but very focused. Looking at this thread it looks like there is a giant outcry for the old icons, but in comparison to the total user base as well as the positive feedback I've had, very few people have complained.
No you are pretty much wrong there. Software development works exactly this way. If it didn't then Microsoft (for example) would never have bothered releasing Windows 8.1. According to your opinion they would have stick to 8 simply because a lot of people had positive reaction towards it, but no they took into serious consideration the "outcry" of negative reviews thus performing the upgrade - fixing the issues outlined by the users. A good software engineer must take it consideration even the 'smallest' and 'most insignificant' comment of any user if they want to deliver a product of high quality.

UltraTaber
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 6:22 pm

Re: Flagfox 5: can I have the old flags back?

Post by UltraTaber » Sat Apr 05, 2014 5:32 pm

i actually removed flagfox.
came back to check if anything changed since.
so much whining from pure lazyness.
i'm impressed.

there are complaints even on addon page.
most of recent addons are about new flags.
we were forced to register here, so you can hear us.
and we see this attitude.
i like the "not maintained" argument.
like there are flags changing every day.

why the hell even argue?
just add the damn skin support, so we can pick anything we want.
and link us to the old "NOT MAINTAINED" flags.
this is what any *sigh* smart developer would do.

i'm actually with gidstelios on that part.
you failed as a developer.
i'm off.
til some flagfox 6 maybe.
hope you'll realize why your point is wrong.

Sarex
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 5:19 pm

Re: Flagfox 5: can I have the old flags back?

Post by Sarex » Fri Jun 06, 2014 5:26 pm

Dave why you don't create option for use old flags icons? It's simples! If the problem are updates you just alert people that old flag icons don't have support for new countries. Easy! And you can create a default flag for show on old flags icons when this no available for some country. Is so simple Dave!

I keep with version 4. But if you update version 5 with option for use old flags icons I upgrade right now!

And please don't tell for "tweak" new icons. They are horrible and when you resize more horrible are!

Please consider this Dave, you are a nice man. Please help this people. ;)

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DaveG
Flagfox Developer
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Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:06 pm
Location: Philadelphia, USA

Re: Flagfox 5: can I have the old flags back?

Post by DaveG » Fri Jun 06, 2014 6:15 pm

As I've already said, adding old unmaintained sets to the installer would bloat the installer size to an unacceptable degree. Adding an option to install alternate flag icon packs is something I'm not against, but implementing that is non-trivial.

Sarex
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 5:19 pm

Re: Flagfox 5: can I have the old flags back?

Post by Sarex » Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:20 pm

You could create an unofficial version with the old icons. And kept the official version with the new icons. What you think about this idea?

roger21
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:14 am

Re: Flagfox 5: can I have the old flags back?

Post by roger21 » Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:24 am

i maintain an unofficial version with smaller flags (flags are 10 high + 2 for the outline) (currently based on 5.0.4)

flags are resized versions of the current set

the link (totally direct ad free link) will die after 30 days of inactivity (so don't hesitate to ask for a new one)

and don't hesitate to delete this post if out of tos
Last edited by DaveG on Sun Jun 08, 2014 3:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: link to external installer deleted

Sarex
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 5:19 pm

Re: Flagfox 5: can I have the old flags back?

Post by Sarex » Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:10 am

roger21 wrote:i maintain an unofficial version with smaller flags (flags are 10 high + 2 for the outline) (currently based on 5.0.4)

flags are resized versions of the current set

the link (totally direct ad free link) will die after 30 days of inactivity (so don't hesitate to ask for a new one)

and don't hesitate to delete this post if out of tos
Resize here looks bad. But nice try. Perfect will be if you could put old flags icons.

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